Mission21

An Interview on Diversity in the IPHC, with:  Ronald W. Carpenter, Sr., Executive director of Evangelism USA.  He also serves as vice-chairman of the IPHC and is responsible for casting and implementing the church planting vision of the denomination; and Rev. Macon Wilson, the first and only director of African-American Ministries for the IPHC.

Listen to the complete interview [56 mins.] on our Podcast Channel IPHC News. 
Read more about the African American Leadership Forum in the Sept08 issue of the IPHC Experience magazine.

I know we've had an intercultural ministries forum for some time now, but how did the vision for a separate and distinct African American ministries develop?

RON CARPENTER: The intercultural ministries forum was in existence when I arrived in 1997, but it was basically a fellowship forum. The effort was to have one representative from each of the 16 ethnic communities within the PH Church of the United States. It had no long-term goals, no track to run on, no vision for developing anything other than just getting together year after year.  
We did that for several years after I arrived here, but I always looked at it as not being a productive meeting in the sense that it didn't really do anything. After five years, I disbanded the forum, hoping to utilize the money in a more productive way.

In regards to a particular vision for African American ministries, I think it's like the elephant in the living room.  12-1/2 percent of the population are African-American, which is 39 million people.  13-1/2 percent are Hispanic or 42 million people. That totals 81 million people or 25% of the 310 million people in this country.  So 1 out of every 4 people in America is either Hispanic or African American.  

The mandate of Evangelism USA is to evangelize America. And I see no way that you can be faithful to a mandate to evangelize a nation if you're going to circumvent one out of every 4 people who live there.

Historically, the PH Church has had a productive relationship with the Hispanic community since 1931, when the first Hispanic conference was organized. The Hispanic membership in this church has grown 400% in the past decade, from 11,000 in 1998 to a projected 47,000 in 2008. Ten years from now 4 out of every 10 members of the PH church in the United States will be Hispanic.  That's staggering.  

However, when you look at the second largest minority group in the country, which is the African-American community, the opposite extreme has actually been the case. If anything has been done it was always individual, personal, but never departmentalized and never denominationally structured.  This is the first time in our history that the denomination has ever had anything structured based on vision for the African American community.  

Now, a lot of this I'm not proud of.  When Macon came here 4-1/2 years ago, we had 11 African American churches in the whole country.  Eleven!  By the end of 2008, that number should be close to 50 churches. In his short time, by virtue of his leadership and the denomination essentially making a statement of concern and commitment, the number of churches has quadrupled.  
So, I think it was just a matter of looking at what our mandate is, looking at America, and looking at a historical oversight and one of the things we addressed in Fayetteville years ago.  Macon quotes it often, but somebody has said:  When all is said and done, more is said than done.  So I think it's just an effort to identify a need and address it in a way that's long overdue.

MACON WILSON: I certainly agree that there's a need.  Usually when something needs to be done, it should be done.  We say we're the body of Christ, and I think so many times we think we are the Body. We're not the body, we're part of the body.  

Oftentimes, when I think about the Body I think about the human anatomy, I think about the tiny small cells.  They're so small that you can't even see them with the naked eye, yet so functional and so important that the body can't live without them.  The cells form tissue, the tissues form organs, the organs form the different systems, and the systems work together to cause the body to function.

I don't think anybody would ever do anything to harm, hurt, or damage or endanger their body.  When you see me as a part of the body of Christ as you are, and see us as a body, and only a body, and not see race, creed, color, or national origin, I think we would all come together.  I think God would be glorified and pleased if we can ever get that thought in our mind.

Somebody has to step out and step up to the plate, and say enough is enough.  And somebody has to evaluate what's happening and what's been happening, and realize that unless something changes, nothing changes. I think this organization, Dr. Carpenter's leadership in EVUSA, what is happening and what has happened, is just opening doors for great opportunities for change, and I think we're seeing it.  

How did the two of you meet?  What led to the selection of Macon as the first Director of African American ministries?

MACON WILSON: Well, it's kind of a unique story. I actually met Dr. Carpenter before we really knew who either one of us were at a Heartland camp meeting He introduced his son, who was the keynote speaker at the conference. His secretary, Debbie Whipple, came up to me after the message was over and she said, “You are just who they've been looking for!” “I need to get an appointment with you with my boss!” And I said, “Well who is your boss?”  She said, “I'll call you Monday.”

I had no idea what Debbie was talking about.  She said, “He travels a lot but I'll see when he can meet with you.”  So I told Zuella (my wife) what she said, and she said, “Well, who's that?”  And I said, “I don't know, she didn't give me any information.”  But she called me that Monday wanting to know if I could meet,.  She told me Dr. Carpenter had maybe 20 minutes.  And when I walked in, I realized that he was the person that I'd met and seen at the campground.  I think our meeting was about 3 hours and 20 minutes.  After talking with him and he sharing with me the organization, some of its history, some of the thoughts and ideas and visions - good and the bad -I think we both found out that we were both pretty much crybabies.

Something happened there between the two of us.  He and I talked and actually created a unique bond right there within a 3 hour period.  It seemed, from the many things that we'd shared, that we had so much in common.

It wasn't like a white man talking to a black man, really.  it was two Christian brothers sharing thoughts and ideas, giving God glory and honor and praise.  And I realized that if something like that could take place throughout the constituents of the IPHC, we could see changes that would be unprecedented. 

And so that's kind of how we came about it, and it's been a very exciting experience for me-and challenging.  There have been some encouraging days and there have been some discouraging days.  There have been some disappointments and there have been some appointments.  But I realize that what God appoints you to do, no one can disappoint.  I also realize that He who has begun a good work in you is faithful to complete it. 

This to me was more of a God-assignment than anything else, because I realized that everybody wasn't in agreement for us to even come.  Everybody was not supporting the vision that Dr. Carpenter had, and the vision that I could see as we talked. I didn't come in fear; I did come in faith.  I came in hope.  I came believing that what we started -what God started -He would see to completion.

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